Harold Holt: An Interview Beyond The Grave with Phil G

A condensed version of the interview with former Australian Prime Minister, Harold Holt, from beyond the grave, with Phil G

"I was a popular prime minister, people liked me. I was a new face, a new excitement."
Were you after Menzies?

Yes, he was so 'stuck up'. I was more liberal. My ways, my views. I wasn't as serious. He was still worried about the war. I felt the war was over. I was a little naive looking back. There were some communist problems. Some of the people that were problems, - I  was associated with. Now there's  something for those who want to check this out - this wasn't common knowledge - that will show this is genuine. But there were some problems in Australia that did come out in later years. If you look back, I was associated with them. But I wasn't part of them, and I didn't know about it. I was unaware of it.

Were the communists a threat then?
I don't think so. In the same way that American was very guarded against the whole communist, Russia, China, cold war, all the things that came later - they were protecting themselves, and I'm sure they had spies which at the time would have been of enormous concern to those countries, and perhaps, would still be a concern today. But they weren't trying to take over the country.They weren't trying to fight them. They were trying to reaffirm their safety.  I think that's what the problem was in the 60-70-80's I think it was more a case of those countries trying to check they were okay. They were just as scared of us as we were of them, and the best way to know what was going on was to get it from the top and hear what's going to happen.

Do you think you did a good job?
Well I wasn't there long! Really. It takes a while to get things going. People think being PM is like, click your fingers and everything changes. But it doesn't. I think it takes 2 years before, as a Prime Minister, you can look back and think "I'm starting to change things". And that's no different today with Kevin (Rudd). It takes a while to get what you want, to start to happen.

Why?
I think people are so locked into their ways. They want change, but they don't really want change. Whitlam was a perfect example. The nation so badly wanted change. But when that change came, they weren't sure they wanted it. I'm sure he felt popular, and liked, and right in what he was trying to do, but I don't think it's too hard to read the history books and find that Australia generally was concerned about his changes. People don't what that much change.

So what brought Whitlam undone? I thought it was the double disillusion, the money problem?
No. That's what the public saw. The problem started because the rate of change was beyond the capacity of those who had to bring the change about. See, when you become PM and you want change, you have to rely on people who are in an office to bring those changes about. And as wrong as it is, those people have opinions. They may or may not have voted for you. They may not agree with what you're doing. And they CAN slow things down. ANY business is only as efficient as the office staff allow it to be. And there were a number of people who were very concerned at the rate of change that was being requested of them. That upset some of them. Two in particular. One main one, with a very close second in support. And then a lot of others in the background who agreed but probably wouldn't have taken action. And they helped find the problem that was then reported - pretty much to the world.

I thought this was an Australian thing?
No. This was reported to the world. And that was simply what people saw, but the problem occurred way before the money. People don't like to change rapidly.

Did you bring about a lot of changes?
I think I brought about a freshness. I don't think I actually changed much. I tried to bring about a change in thinking. To put new eyes on things. And I think I did that. I think that's why, when I disappeared, the nation was so shocked. It's a bit like JFK. Looking back, some wonder if he DID do the best thing for the country at the time, but he was liked, was popular, and was trying to do the right thing, and as a result of that, the country was terribly shocked.

Your disappearance in the ocean?
I went into the ocean. I LOVED to swim, I loved the ocean. I loved the fury of the water. I loved fighting it.I loved that feeling. I know it scares people, but I loved it. Just that FIGHTING of the waves, you have to overcome nature. I LOVED that. I loved being stronger than nature. Many thought I was foolish. I wasn't. I knew exactly what I was doing. The one thing I didn't know, about that day, was that there was a very strong undercurrent. I didn't know that, and I got caught in it. I got caught in it at a time when no-one was really looking for me. At me. And the surface was very rough. It was impossible to see anybody there. Whether they were there or not. And in a split second I was pulled under, and then a wave raised me. I don't believe I broke through the water, but I was raised rapidly and then slammed down on my stomach, and my stomach, and lower chest hit a rock, very hard. I immediately doubled over in pain, and any action that my arms could have performed disappeared. I was in excruciating pain. I realized I was under the water, and I had to do something. I tried to swim. I couldn't. The pain was too great. As I tried to stretch my arms out to swim, the pain was too much. I guessing my ribs were broken.

Interview continues on Phil's web site...

So you didn't come to me to personally contact your family?
No. I'm one of many that are going to come to you. Because we've been asked to. And we will do it. Because people are curious. Many will hate what you do. Many will think what you do is wrong. Many won't believe you, but that doesn't matter. Even if they don't believe you, but read some of your words, about how to recognize when 'we're' around, then you've done a good job, and if me, coming through to you, means you get more people aware of that, even if only half of them, then you still have achieved what you set out to achieve, to share the message with more people (about spirit contact). I hope people are as compassionate and caring about your message, as you are with sharing our stories"

See the full "Interview Beyond The Grave"  at  philg.net.au